Herbert L. Clarke once said that jazz was the “devil in music,” but this “devil music” helped pave the way for artist such as Louie Armstrong and Harry James. Today, some forms of rap, R&B, rock, etc. could easily be considered the “devil in music.” Do you think artist like Clarke used those words because he feared for the loss of classical brass music or did he really have a point?
I think he said that because it was something VERY different form all the other kinds of music. From a classical point of view, I can see how someone who plays classical can call jazz the “devil in music”, But in terms of music as a whole, jazz is really the most inevative, and creative music there has ever been. if you listen to some of the recording satchmo did, it is a very spiritual music, so I really don’t see how anyone can call jazz music bad.
I think that both jazz, and classical music will always have their respectible audiences.
I completely agree with your comments. Since you are a Herbert L. Clarke fanatic like am, would you know where I could find a recording for his variations on Funiculi, Funicula?
Jazz, like Tango, was not a highly-regarded musical genre and was thought to be saucy, lewd, and such. Jazz, Like Tango, was associated with brothels, all sorts of sexual promiscuity, bootleg liquor, etc. “Respectible” flks like us (smile) didn’t go near the music or its followers. Clarke’s comments must be taken in context. Also, there didn’t seem to be any formal training required for these “lower” forms of musical expression. Even today, scholars must occasionaly remind people that improvisation is NOT “natural” playing but requires an inordinate amount of technical mastery, skill, talent, intelelctual/mental and emotional focus…I’m preaching to the choir.
I have dear friend from Buenos Aires and when I told her that the LCJO was performing in Teatro Colon, she gasped. (Ok so, we’re older) but she remembers how “that” kind of music was never allowed in the theatre…Tango has been played there too! I even have a live recording of Orquesta del Tango en vivo en el Colon that is amazing…times have changed and now to think the LCJO will be perfoming in such a sacred space? Increible! Its a new world…really. You youngsters are the beneficiaries of a few dedicated, broad minded people who committed themselves to ushering in change. You are fortunate.
Ai dios…does that mean that hip-hop will one day be performed in Carnegie Hall and such? You wouldn’t, would you?
Anyway, we’re still working to get past the stigmas associated with “lower” forms of music although so much progress has been made. LCJO is a Godsend…if THEY can perform in such sacred places, then WOW! We’ve all come a long way…leaders in the world of music and culture. I admire those guys.
And I had a point…pero el punto ya se fue…
Maybe later…I know, I know, you’ll all be waiting on the edge of your seats.
Of course, both forms have associations, routes and roots with africans aswell!
Unquestionably a factor in many, if not most denouncements.
Jurzy. Can you recommend an introductory recording of Tango and of Flamenco please? and any relevant literature?
LCJO are by no means pioneers of bringing jazz to the concert hall! Though they are pioneers in bringing the repertoire and history of the music aswell as many fine new voices to such a wide and diverse audience in this generation, interestingly,this is in my opinion, largely if not wholly due to the involvment of Wynton, whose virtuoso classical playing has meant they are granted approval of many of the establishment heads! and this has helped knock on a few doors.
“En Vivo en El Colon” is a magnificent live recording of Tango. The music is intense, complex, and moving. “Masters of Flamenco Guitar” is a good sample of many great guitarrists…good place to start so you can hear the variety and all the intricacies of sound the different musicians create on their instruments. Chano Dominquez is one of my favorites (not on this CD) but anything by Dominguez is great…delicately rendered, intense and lovely music.
Not sure about books. Haven’t done a lot of formal study on these two forms…mostly an avid listener. Would not call anything I have read “definitive” or even a “must have” item for a bookshelf.
I think the africanisms or influence is a reason for so much disdain for various musical types and think that’s one very important reason why there’s so much controversy over the blues being a base for jazz. Get over it, you know? Rhythms, polyrhythms, timing and the playfulness with timing are some of the obvious influences of Africa on many musical styles. The diaspora is huge, from morna to tango, to flamenco, to los jibaros en Puerto Rico y los gauchos en Argentina…there is a definitie influence, there are commonalities…y que? So much fuss. What’s wrong with mixing? You get a better yield! People get so up in arms about heritage, whether musical or biological (bc its cultural), but there’s no gains made by disputing influences.
Ja! People always want to know what I am “mixed” with…my answer has been the same forever… “con mi made y padre, y tu?!”
Jurzy, my feelings exactly, i’m so so gald to hear you say that! I always detected a bit of enlightenment in your postings!!